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The $2,000.00 Horse Slaughter Challenge!

15 Jan

$2,000.00!

We are upping the ante. RT Fitch has thrown in another $1,000.00 on top of mine, for a total of $2,000.00 to be given to any person that can give us one logical, ethical and scientifically provable reason why it is necessary to slaughter horses for human consumption. In addition, I will publicly apologize for my years of battling horse slaughter. 

Show us, beyond any doubt, that you are right and we are wrong. Here is your chance to spread the word of your gospel, to demonstrate why horse slaughter is necessary for the good of the country, for the good of the industry or even for the good of the starving masses in Paris.

That’s all you have to do, and this offer is open to any organization, any pseudo-wizard equine veterinarian, any university, breed organization spokesperson, or Senator. We await your knowledge, your wisdom, your proven facts.

You spread the propaganda in the media, you get the cattle and horse associations to push the lies, you give money to universities to come up with pseudo-facts, yet 80% of the population of the US still doubts you. Haven’t you figured it out yet? I think we’re on to some of your tricks and we’re not buying your lies any more.

The answers I’ve received so far are in the “Comments” section. Those few who have responded have come up with some of the most insane dribble imaginable. If you seriously want to read the attempts to make a claim, wade through the comments. I’ve found the majority of the pro-slaughter statements both disgusting and frightening; not only because of the lack of reasoning, but also because they represent the disturbing regurgitation of propaganda pushed on the American people by those who profit from the sale of horse flesh.

I seriously wish you supposed supporters of horse slaughter would open your eyes and see how you are being manipulated. What is so sad is that people are making millions of dollars because they have convinced you that horse slaughter is necessary. They are lying to you and you are soaking up their propaganda like a paper towel.

Let me give you an example of propaganda, one that cost millions of lives, a “fact” dribbled out by the power mad that almost destroyed the world:

"It must be true!"

“The goal of the Jew is to make himself the ruler of humanity. Wherever he comes, he destroys works of culture. He is not a creative spirit, rather a destructive spirit.” – Verlag von Heinrich Handel, 1934

People came to believe that garbage and the tons of future garbage promoted through pure propaganda. No facts, no truth, yet the masses heard and believed because those in “authority” said so, thus it must be true.

One more sample?

“The number of unwanted horses in the United States is growing by nearly 150,000 a year since the closing of the last U.S. slaughter plants, and no single, easy solution is in sight. Those were some conclusions of a study conducted by students in South Dakota State University’s animal and range sciences department.” –  Rapid City SD Journal

I could sit here all day and list example after example of propaganda that the horse slaughter industry has been pushing off on the American people – from the simple act of calling those who are against horse slaughter, “animal rights activist, animal  rights terrorist, veggie-headed liberals, etc.” while bestowing upon themselves the virtues of knowledge, like “The United Horseman’s Front.”

"But the GAO said it!"

They also tap into the voice of authority, thinking no one would dare question the “facts” from such great organizations as the AAEP, the AVMA, or the AQHA. Even the GAO report turned out to be a complete and total scientific failure that lost all credibility when those who promoted horse slaughter were already aware of the results BEFORE the GAO release.

They play on your fears that the horse market will never recover, ignoring the fact that it will recover when the housing market, the job market and the stock market recover. They’ve tried to blame the failed economy solely and completely on the closing of the horse slaughterhouses!

And too many of you folks actually BELIEVE THEM!

If those who directly profit off the slaughter of American horses for human consumption can keep up the propaganda, they will always have a supply of horses to feed their money machine. All they have to do is convince you that horse slaughter is there for the good of all, that unless we have horse slaughter we will have hundreds of thousands of starving horses, that horse slaughter is a necessary evil, that only they offer the true answer.

Not only that – they want to convince you that it MUST be done in the USA. Perhaps they didn’t mention that sending horses across the border lessens the profit they make, that fooling around with all the fake paperwork takes too much time. And of course they want slaughterhouses closer to the mass collection sites – because trucking all the way to Mexico or Canada costs money! You really didn’t think they cared about the stress on the horses, did you?

Unless you are in the horse slaughter business to make money, if you truly think that horse slaughter is necessary, you are being manipulated. I wish you would spend some time seriously thinking about the things you were told to believe. 

That’s exactly why I am throwing down this challenge – make those who profit off the flesh of horse face up to the only real reason they want horse slaughter – for the money. That’s it. Nothing else.

Those who support horse slaughter should be ashamed to know that you have been manipulated with a bombardment of lies. Just like the Mafia, they will do whatever it takes to keep their blood money rolling in, and you have unwillingly played a big part in placing deposits into their bank account. 

Does money mean that much to you?

With the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act still stuck in Congress, it will take more than phone calls from the White House to get it into law. The blood from horse slaughter flows far into the Halls of Congress. The tentacles of corruption have wrapped themselves around just the right number of Senators and Representatives to repel the requests of the majority of those whom they were elected to represent, those who, even now, still cry out, “Please stop killing our horses.”

There is no reason. No reason at all.

 
 

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105 responses to “The $2,000.00 Horse Slaughter Challenge!

  1. Suzanne Moore

    January 22, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Teri, I can well understand how you feel, BUT it’s been proven that abuse goes down when the slaughter plants close and up when they open. Besides, remember, slaughter is just as available RIGHT NOW as it ever was. Why don’t these people send these horses to slaughter? I can’t answer THAT question, but it does prove that slaughter is NOT the answer. It hasn’t worked and it will never work.

    We need to stop slaughtering completely and then concentrate of getting authorities to DO something to those who are abusing, neglecting their animals.

     
  2. Lisa R

    January 20, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Thanks for all the thought provoking posts and comments. I still don’t understand why horses are sold for slaughter when they were never intended for food. I have read the residues from medications can be harmful if not fatal to people when they eat this meat. The horses here in the USA are recreational, not food sources, not to mention the fact that like others have mentioned it is just an easy way to get rid of a horse you don’t want. That’s just plain irresponsible, and so is over breeding!

     
  3. faith

    January 19, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    Candy W
    Formal logic is NOT subjective. First discovered by Arsitotle there are rules that govern logic and it is the language of computers and artificial intelligence. In the case of deductive reasoning the truth of the premise guarantees the truth of the conclusion. Truth tables can be constructed to demonstrate a valid argument. It can never be the case in a vaild argument that you have true premises and a false conclusion. In terms of inductive reasoning you must also establish a relationship between the premise and conclusion. As for ethics being subjective you are again incorrect. Applying the principles of formal logic you can develop a valid argument that horse slaughter is morally unacceptable based on the principles of both utilitarian and deontological ethics. Such an argument can also be developed based on our political principles.
    You seem to have misinterpreted the challenge. It says provide a scientific reason for the necessity of slaughter the question does not ask you to apply scientific method to slaughter itself. The standard answer from your side seems to be that there is a need for slaughter because without it horses are abused and neglected. That correlation has never been established. Again why is horse slaughter necessary? The question is straight forward. The problem is that proslaughter people cannot provide any reason for the necessity of slaughter because the real motivation behind the desire to slaughter horses is greed and that is neither a scientific nor ethical justification.

     
    • Candy W.

      January 20, 2012 at 7:44 am

      Ok…enlighten me more. Give me the scientific reason horse slaughter is NOT needed. Substantiate your side using the methods you stated in your response.

       
      • Jerry Finch

        January 20, 2012 at 3:02 pm

        That’s not how it works, Candy. Let’s see your $2,000 first

         
      • Candy W

        January 20, 2012 at 8:11 pm

        So you really aren’t about sitting down, talking or sharing ideas at all then are you. Is Miss Faith your representative? Or is that just a convenient response because the very things you asked for can’t be provided by the anti-choice side either?

         
      • Suzanne Moore

        January 22, 2012 at 12:32 pm

        The rules of formal logic have always acknowledged that it is impossible to prove a negative. The proof must involve something you DO, not something you do NOT do.

         
  4. Barbara R.

    January 19, 2012 at 10:30 am

    Geez…same old arguments “for” slaughter that have been posted over the past 6 months or so. Does anyone actually read? Do any of you who are pro have any idea that we were sending horses to Canada and Mexico BEFORE the kill houses were closed in the U.S. That “long travel” argument is a moot point! Do any of you realize when you talk about “recycling” and using meat for food, pet food, etc., that horse meat was BANNED in pet food back in the 1970s because it is carcinogenic? So your local sheriff or animal control won’t answer your requests to investigate and you watch the horses starve? Seriously?! The sheriff is an “elected official” — start a campaign to get him ousted from office if he’s not doing his job. Contact your state and federal elected officials. There is no excuse! To those who think that slaughter will be more “humane” when regulated. Are you kidding? Have you not read the countless articles and watched the countless videos of abuse during the time when the kill houses were operating in the U.S. and “inspected” by the USDA? Some of those undercover videos were actually done by the USDA employees themselves. Wake up! Using the captive bolt on horses violated the decades old Humane Horse Slaughter Act! Have any of you read the posts from people who lived in slaughter-house areas about the stench, violations of environmental laws, screams of horses, high crime rate, low home values, etc., etc., all of which changed when the houses were closed? Who do you think gets employed at these places? Do you want them in your neighborhood? Those who constantly want the anti-slaughter people to take on all the “unwanted” horses are just ignorant and spewing more Wallis crap. Why should we have to clean up after irresponsible breeders and heartless racehorse owners? Why is it always “our job” and not yours? Easy to just send them off to be killed and be done with it, right? Horses starving because of no slaughter? Seriously? Are you going to try that argument again? Studies have shown that since the kill houses closed, the incidence of abandonment in California alone DECREASED. People in Canada have written countless blogs about the incidence of starvation and abandonment up there even though they have SEVERAL kill houses! There is NO relationship and stop trying to make one. Another Wallis ploy! People who are abusers or hoarders will do so with or without slaughter and slaughter has ALWAYS been an option for them. No logic there either! So, R.T. — totally agree with you! You have no “takers” to your challenge!

     
  5. Jerri L Krueger

    January 19, 2012 at 7:11 am

    Unfortunately horse slaughter exists because of irresponsible breeding. So far as I am aware, there are no commercial breeders of horses for the soul purpose of slaughter/human consumtion. The racehorse industry floods the market every year with their cast offs. The backyard breeders that breed everything without consideration or consequence to the foals they are producing. It is sad but true. We created the horse slaughter market, not the other way around.

     
  6. Candace Calloway Whiting

    January 18, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Although I normally write about whales and dolphins, the issues of slaughter are very similar to those of horses – hopefully it will bring new viewers to your efforts.

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/candacewhiting/2012/01/18/the-2000-00-horse-slaughter-challenge/

     
    • Jerry Finch

      January 18, 2012 at 2:26 pm

      Thank you. Another industry hell bent on destroying life for the profit of a few.

       
  7. Darcy

    January 18, 2012 at 9:55 am

    it’s quit simple ………… if you can’t afford to pay for an “Emergency Euthanasia” of one or more of your horse/horses………….. YOU CAN’T AFFORD A HORSE….. so start looking for a new home for it/them NOW!!!!!

     
  8. Candy W.

    January 18, 2012 at 8:03 am

    Concerning the challenge, is this just open to “professionals” (business owners, politicians, vets, etc) or can little ol’ me take a stab at this? And if I can, I need YOUR definition of “scientific”.

     
    • Jerry Finch

      January 18, 2012 at 10:27 am

      Open to you, Candy. Scientific means utilizing principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.
      The question is “Is the slaughter of horses from the US necessary?” The hypotheses is that horse slaughter is necessary for moral, ethical and/or humane reasons. Your job is to offer proof that would lead anyone using your facts to draw the same conclusion.

       
      • Candy W.

        January 19, 2012 at 12:35 pm

        After much thought I am responding to the $2K Challenge. You will “win” this challenge, Mr. Fitch, because you have framed it in such a way that it is skewed in your favor.

        First of all, it is impossible to supply “scientific” reasons for the need for horse processing. This is because you cannot apply a scientific process to the act of animal processing. Processing of any animal is a matter of cultural preference and market availability.

        Second, moral and “logical” reasons are subjective. Obviously, what is moral to you, may not be moral to me, or others, so cannot be “evaluated” as right or wrong. You can’t “scientifically” prove something is morally or ethically wrong or right. Can’t be done.

        This entire issue comes down to a battle of wills between groups of individuals with differing views on how one’s life (and the life of their animals) should be lived. One group is able to compartmentalize their feelings and realize there is a need for an outlet other than rescue, or the wasting and degrading of a valuable resource (in life and in death), such as the horse.

        On the other side are individuals who feel that a horse’s life, and being alive, is more valuable than perhaps their own. They can provide no logical reasons for keeping an animal alive or utilizing that animal in death, except for “it’s not right to eat them”, “we don’t do that here” or “they all deserve a second chance”. These are all based on pure emotion with absolutely NO data of any kind to support those reasons. Their reasons are based on emotion alone.

        Thanks for letting me play along. Ya’ll have a nice day.

         
    • faith

      January 18, 2012 at 2:30 pm

      The definition of scientific is universally accepted as data that is gathered through the use of scientific method by individuals with expertise in a particluar field. Scientific method requires the establishment of a statistically significant correlation between variables to support claims that their is in fact a causal relation between variables. The research must be able to be repeated by other qualified individuals to verify its conclusion. Scientific information is found in peer reviewed scientific journals. For something to be accepted by the scientific community all the rules of research design and inductive reasoning must be followed. That is a brief overview. The GAO report is seriously flawed in terms of methodological design and cannot establish a statistically significant correlation between abuse and no US slaughter.

       
      • Denise

        January 18, 2012 at 4:36 pm

        I am supposing that the entire traditional, US meat livestock industry is on the verge of a serious scientific FAIL when it comes to “drugs”, humane and economic efficiency.

        If you want science….might explain why horsemeat has become a US beef “varieties” export product…you won’t find it….science that is.

         
  9. Carey Cartwright

    January 17, 2012 at 10:04 am

    I just recently posted a article on my Facebook page about this issue. I am a professional trainer and long time equine owner. I have worked with my local community to help rescue several horses and currently run a behavioral rehabilitation facility for horses. As I said on my page, the “reality” of the matter is your average everyday individual, especially in the current economy, cannot afford themselves more or less their animal companions. Not everyone has a bottomless pocket to help the millions of horses out there. In my profession I help to give some of the potential slaughter horses a second chance by correcting dangerous behavior that would otherwise land them in their hands. But unfortunately I do understand that I cannot save them all.
    Unfortunately, do to human greed and irresponsible ownership of stallions and breeding we are now completely overwhelmed with a population of horses that have absolutely no chance to gain a positive life in the world. I have a perfect example of that not 4 miles down the road from where I live. A man has a stallion that runs loose and breeds at will. He has 30 + horses not counting the skeletons and remains that lay around the pasture. He has starving broodmares on logging chains, no halters, tied to trees. (but this is a better life?) Hes had horses get out of his ratty fences and get hit by logging trucks and school buses. (i figured the horses would rather commit suicide then starve to death) Animal control has been contacted so many times they wont even respond nor will the state vet.
    So with this one small scenario in mind, lord knows there are hundreds if not thousands of other horses in the same situation or worse, please consider the situation of a strictly regulated slaughter industry, and I mean all the way down to the kill buyers. There needs to be laws in place to protect the humane handling of the horse while it is bought, transported, all the way to the euthanasia process at the plant. I understand that the mainstream United States does not approve of eating horse meat, but humans have survived off of it in other cultures, including some in ours, for millions of years. I love and have more compassion for theses animals than I do most humans. I have watched horses with no way of helping them, die a slow death over a years time. I would much rather see that horse go to a plant that respectfully euthanizes and processes that animal for a profit then watch the reality that is happening 24 hours a day all over the country.
    Even our horse rescues that were hopefully started for good pretenses, are now falling into these categories due to lack of funding and overpopulation. A place in Louisianan just recently was shut down and 50 horses were rescued, all were walking the green mile. Hopefully most of them will survive, but the other 26 or more carcasses that were laying around didn’t have a chance. Since “we” the human race decided to abuse our dominion over the animal kingdom for personal gain, and this statement applies to all domesticated animals, I think we should at least have the responsibility to own up to our mistakes and give these animals a respectful, humane, death and purpose rather than turn our backs and neglect them to live a horrible life in captivity.
    Instead of fighting the legislation “we” as in, t”he horse lovers” should step up and unite to make sure our already screwed up government doesn’t take things into their own hands, and make sure correct procedures are set in laws to protect the horse throughout the process all the way down to the second it is decided that horse is to become a slaughter candidate.

     
    • Jerry Finch

      January 17, 2012 at 10:48 am

      Carey Cartwright – Interesting observations that you somehow relate starvation cases to the need for horse slaughter. I’ve been doing this for a LONG time and involved in a lot of seizures against those who starve/abuse horses. With Beltex and Dallas Crown killing horses everyday from sunup through the afternoon we still had an endless caseload, some of them within miles of the slaughterhouses. Back then, Dallas Crown would charge a KBer $50 to dispose of a skinny horse. I don’t think the Mexican plants even accept them at all, which is why we have “unwanted” horses wandering the parks – because they were dumped by the KBers.

      I can’t quite follow the argument that the main reason for slaughter is because law enforcement refuses to enforce the law. As thick-headed as I am, it seems like those would actually be separate issues, much like saying there are too many stolen cars on the streets because law enforcement refuses to arrest car thieves.

      But what really touches me about your post, Carey, is that you state, “I have watched horses with no way of helping them, die a slow death over a years time.” Wow, really? You watched them die a slow death by starvation over the course of a year? That’s exactly what you said, so I’m taking your word for it. That pretty much says it all, doesn’t it? I think after a few weeks I would have about a hundred people protesting in from of the Sheriff’s Office, with TV and newspaper coverage. At least I would have contacted the state Attorney General. Laws are made to be enforced, not ignored at the whim of whomever might be sitting the the Sheriff’s chair.

      Again, for the hundredth time – equine starvation has absolutely nothing to do with equine slaughter. If I wanted to sees my horse slaughtered, I can take him to the auction this Friday. If he was fat, he’d be skinned, cut up, frozen and on the way to France by next Wednesday. The slaughter option was never taken away. It is just as easy today as it was in 2006.So your point about all these starving horses is … what?

       
      • Dana Law

        January 17, 2012 at 5:31 pm

        It boggles my mind how these points are still not processed by the Pro-slaughter peeps. Equine slaughter has NEVER been unavailable in the US…even though the the houses are closed locally, all it takes is the same drive to the auction, and the KB will take over and ship them instead to Canada or Mexico. You can still dispose of your horse in the same exact manner…

        Up here in Canada, we have our equine slaughter houses open and still have neglect seizures regularly…sometimes close enough to lead the herds right to the doorstep. There is no excuse for neglecting or starving your horses, I don’t buy that horse-people are EVER in such a dire predicament that the only choice they have is to not feed them.

        I honestly think that most owners in a bad situation don’t TRY HARD ENOUGH, to place horses that they cannot afford due to unforseen circumstances. The reward of meat price (however low) for a horse you are having difficulty affording is more appealing than doing the responsible and difficult thing by either re-homing or kindly euthanizing.

        Anyone that stands idly by and watches horses starving in a field in their area is criminal. Don’t spew crap that the authorities won’t do anything either, animal abuse and neglect is illegal in every area I can think of, and if they AREN’T taking care of it….then get off your arse and do something. You are just as guilty as them if you don’t. There are ways to get the ball rolling…it’s not rocket science….

         
      • Carey Cartwright

        January 17, 2012 at 11:05 pm

        I totally agree that equine starvation has nothing to do with equine slaughter. If an individual has no other options and cannot place a horse in a good home or facility, and well before they are abandoned or starved, had a slaughter option, wouldn’t you think they would do that before they would choose the neglect and abandonment scenario? As for the situation down the road the community did not, nor did I stand by and “watch” this happen. We called the news crews, the state vet, and animal control, we were all told that they didn’t see any issues and it was left to the owners discretion even after a rabies outbreak. We took pictures called rescues, which were filled to capacity, and nothing followed through. Unfortunately in our state the animal control divisions do not rally on these situations the way they do out in mid-west. We have gotten more excuses on why they cant do anything then why they can. We live in a very rural area and there is a strong “good ol boys” network. So we just watch take notes and pictures and wait for the next instance to once again shake the county’s cage to do something. I reiterate, I do not like the fact that horses are making their way to the slaughter plants, but once again greed and irresponsible breeders have put us in this position. So If you can convince me that you and your organization can locate and place every unwanted horse that is out here, and provide them good homes free of any neglect, then yes I will totally agree we do not need the slaughter option.

         
      • Jerry Finch

        January 18, 2012 at 6:02 am

        And once again, the “slaughter is the answer” option has been and is still open to all these people. With or without the slaughter option there will ALWAYS be hoarders and others who starve animals. Opening a slaughter house across the street would not have made any difference.

         
      • Carey Cartwright

        January 18, 2012 at 8:06 am

        Well Mr Finch, once again I see you refuse to acknowledge the everyday facts of the horse situation in this county. I see other comments from people who state exactly what I did about the authorities not helping. Also I noticed you seemed to totally ignore the last statement I made about finding every horse that needs a home. You are quick to throw your argument out that we have no need for this process, but you refuse to look at the reality of the situation, humans made it happen, now we have to do something with the excess. The truth of the matter is there are way to many horses for the rescues and equine enthusiast to ever place or find in permanent healthy homes. So whats your answer for the thousands of forgotten souls?

         
    • Tracey Snyder

      January 17, 2012 at 10:51 am

      Euthanasia? Slaughter is NOT euthanasia, there is no humane way to slaughter a horse. Come on, why does everyone go back to I am for if it is done the “humane way”.? Give me a humane way to slaugher the horse and we will talk. As for laws, they are already in place right now that are supposed to regulate the transport of horses from death auction to auction til they finally cross the borders of Canada or Mexico, no laws are enforced no one checks for meds or freeze brands… This will not change as long as money is involved, whether we have slaugher houses here in America or not.

       
    • kathy h

      January 17, 2012 at 4:42 pm

      “I have a perfect example of that not 4 miles down the road from where I live. A man has a stallion that runs loose and breeds at will. He has 30 + horses not counting the skeletons and remains that lay around the pasture. He has starving broodmares on logging chains, no halters, tied to trees. (but this is a better life?) Hes had horses get out of his ratty fences and get hit by logging trucks and school buses. (i figured the horses would rather commit suicide then starve to death) Animal control has been contacted so many times they wont even respond nor will the state vet.” Ok I’m confused…^^That’s a perfect example why slaughter should resume in the US? Because there are some grossly irresponsible horse owners that fail their horses in every way possible, or ones that no longer can care for them despite the desire to..the floodgates should just be thrown wide open to resume slaughter in the US? This “Owner” You speak of. despite the fact that nothing is stopping him/her from sending his horses to slaughter chooses* instead* to maintain the horrible scenario You describe..I must be missing something here..

       
  10. faith

    January 17, 2012 at 8:57 am

    HSUS has a hay assistance program also. Contact your state HSUS director for help. When we have starving horses here the call goes and and the horse community responds. Last year a rescue was running short and within a week the hay was being hauled in free of charge. If your area is in need go to your representatives and have them contact representatives in states like Pa we have plenty of hay at a decent price 4.50 a bale and I am sure many of our farmers and horse people would donate hay if there was a way to get it to you. Get your convoy together and I will donate hay to you as I am sure many others will be more than willing to do. We sent tractor trailers of all kinds of pet supplies to Katrina.

     
  11. CQ

    January 17, 2012 at 2:53 am

    If the reason we are each put on this earth is to cultivate a good character and learn to love more unselfishly and universally, then horse slaughter does not help us accomplish those intertwined purposes.

    Instead, horse slaughter allows us to shirk our responsibilities. It allows us to call companion animals “tools,” as Josh did so casually in a comment above. It allows us to perpetuate the same stupid, cruel acts over and over, with no end in sight.

    When we accept the slaughter of horses for meat and money as normal, natural, necessary, our character is coarsened instead of cultivated. Our ethics are deprived — and depraved — instead of improved. Our love is self-centered and exclusive, instead of other-centered and all-inclusive.

    Josh and Katelyn, neither of you can help being born into families where horses are valued for, as Faith put it, their extrinsic worth more than their intrinsic worth. But you don’t have to remain in that mindset.

    You each have the ability to think for yourself. You can each stroll into a pasture or a paddock and sit in front of a horse (a favorite or a least favorite horse). You can each ask yourself if you really think it is just, fair, loyal, kind, wise, honest, honorable, or humane to condone the killing of innocent friends, of humble allies, of hard-working partners — regardless of their species.

    To get an intelligent answer, you will have to stop letting the excuses of your relatives and neighbors, which up to now you’ve accepted as gospel, hold sway over your conscience. You will also have to stop judging horses by their physical abilities, by how much work they do for their “owner,” by how much they earn in prize money and/or ribbons for their rider, trainer, “owner,” by much power you as a Homo sapien have over equines, and by how many pounds their flesh would provide for horseburgers.

    You will become the moral being you are designed to be when you come to the conclusion that a real man (generic man meaning men and women) never betrays the innocent. A real man would never do to others what he would not want done to himself were he in the others’ shoes (or hooves). A real man would never confuse mercy with mercenary, justice with “just the way things are” or kindness with convenience killing.

    In short, whenever the person who has the upper hand — and legal rights — puts his own needs and wants and security AHEAD of the defenseless, rights-less being who he is charged with caring for and caring about, he hasn’t grown into a full measure of manhood (or womanhood).

    Each of you, Josh and Katelyn, can each do great things with your your lives if you decide to break out of the herd mentality — that is, break away from the culture and conventions that surround you — and find a way to do something magnificent and noble for these steeds. Horses — all animals, really — deserve your best ideas, instincts, and efforts, not your worst ones.

    I guarantee you will have the most amazing natural “high” the minute you stand up for those who are waiting for you to learn to love them for who they are, not for what they can do for you.

    You don’t want to be remembered for how many horses you send to slaughter or for how to fought to give others the “right” to slaughter their horses. Do you?

    Wouldn’t you rather be remembered for having never let a single horse down — for having never caused a single horse a moment of terror, of panic, of emotional or physical agony? For having only brought to these fellow-beings you are privileged with protecting the peace, comfort and happiness they deserve and crave?

    We all know Harriet Beecher Stowe as the abolitionist author of Uncle Tom’s Cabin, a book which turned public sentiment against slavery in the U.S. and led to the downfall of that wretched institution.

    Elsewhere in her writings Stowe observed:
    ~ “What makes saintliness in my view, as distinguished from ordinary goodness, is a certain quality of magnanimity and greatness of soul that brings life within the circle of the heroic.”
    ~ “I must speak for the oppressed — who cannot speak for themselves.”
    ~ “It’s a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong — something the best people have always done.”

    Do you want to be counted among those “best people” — among “the heroic”?

     
  12. REW

    January 17, 2012 at 12:01 am

    What’s really ironic about this topic is that EVERY ONE think’s they are right. Well that’s just how it goes. Not everyone that own’s horses deserves them, but who am I to say.
    I am not law, or anyone important.
    I own my own horses and have never in my life been without them. I train my own, ride them, feed them, have their feet done on time, worm them and keep them healthy and happy. I once tried to sell a brood mare as a pasture pet, I was emailed by someone that said “I just used them up and threw them away”.. Well I just had to reply that if she wanted the horse to take it and shut her mouth, and if she didn’t want it to pay for the care of it. Well I never got a reply.
    PEOPLE LIKE TO JUDGE AND THEN SIT BACK AND DO NOTHING ABOUT ANYTHING.
    Well I am a very strong horse lover I own 6 and 3 mini’s I wouldn’t want anything to happen to my horses, however I am not against getting rid of the bad apples, and if they go to slaughter then so be it. Such as I “rescued” 5 unwanted horses, Half of them were starved and the other half were foundered. Great combo huh? Well that’s what I thought.
    I found homes for 4 of them, after dumping $6,000 into them after vet care, farrier for the foundered ones, feed to get them up to weight, and general care. I took care of them for a year before being able to get them healthy enough to go to good homes. So do you think I got my money back? Guess again I only ended up getting about 1400.00 back. One of them was extremely mean, He would charge you going out into the field even just trying to feed him he would kick at you and he almost kicked me 4 separate times After a year of trying to give him some training, I finally gave up and decided to ship him to sale. Not caring if he went to slaughter or not. He was going to hurt someone and I couldn’t take that chance. Not only would he make meat, but glue, dog food, etc… I don’t have a concern where or what happened to him.
    Sometimes you just need to weed out the culls.
    If people would quit over breeding, and leaving young horses to mature without any training there wouldn’t be as many horses that need to be shipped to slaughter. I believe that It is a good thing to have in case you need it. I don’t think that people should use it as a sole way of getting rid of a horse. If it can be re-homed that’s great, but that’s not always the case.
    A lot of these rescue places take in all these really old horses and retire them. What good will that do you. Yeah some of them deserve to “retire” however if they took all the money and put to all the younger horses they get in and invest it into their training a lot more horses would be placed faster into homes. So the rescues could do something useful for the horse population. Not just feed horses that can’t be used and some of which are in pain and ready to die. Ship the old ones and focus on the ones that can be fixed. Then maybe there wouldn’t be as many young use able horses that get shipped to slaughter. But that is just my opinion, I don’t live in a CITY or have a know it all attitude. I just see the pro’s and con’s.
    I am for horse slaughter if used wisely and against if if people just are in it to make money.
    So that’s my view on it.
    I don’t need any sarcastic mouthy know it all people commenting on this I am just expressing how I feel in the matter and giving a little back story of why I feel that way.
    IF YOU ARE AGAINST HORSE SLAUGHTER go online and in your area find a young horse they are always advertised as “green” horse buy it, train it and re-home it and then you will be helping against the slaughter of that horse. That will be the only way you can make a REAL difference. Because sitting behind your computer at your house throwing your opinion to who ever will listen isn’t helping the horses that are already lined up to go.
    There are 2 choices, inhumane out of the U.S.
    or humane in the U.S.
    I choose humane in the U.S.

     
    • Amanda Gray

      January 17, 2012 at 4:13 pm

      It wasn’t humane in the states and if we bring it back it will still not be humane in the states. What part of that don’t you guys understand? We don’t have the money to properly regulate slaughter houses. We don’t have the money to make it humane! We have less money now than we did years ago and it was inhumane then! And most of the old horses sent have been given drugs that make it ILLEGAL TO SHIP THEM TO SLAUGHTER! I don’t see a valid argument in your post. Not one.

       
    • Denise

      January 18, 2012 at 4:54 pm

      REW:

      Good golly…you used up a lot of words to say you support slaughter.

      Oh, and telling those that are more ethical and educated about HCHS to shut up until they go out and scoop up a horse (burro,mule). Ka-rap!….you are an equine rocket scientist.

      BTW…when I go to a h*llhole kill auction and can’t outbid the KB….do I blame me, the auction, the KB, the weather or the horse? In the end, the equine pays if it gtoes to the killer.

      p.s. The US says international HCHS is humane. They did it when the last three foreign owned plants were open in the US and certified (informally the EU plants in NA) now that they are closed here.

      You know, (the remainder of this post has been deleted due to language. )

       
    • Suzanne Moore

      January 19, 2012 at 10:12 pm

      Have you never heard of euthanasia? I do NOT buy all this crap about “can’t afford euthanasia and disposal.” If you have been supporting a horse you can afford euthanasia and disposal – it only costs about what it would cost if you kept the horse alive ONE more month. Can’t afford it, my eye! Don’t want to shell out for it is more like it. Slaughter is NOT euthanasia! Slaughter is cruel in the extreme! So cruel that it does indeed not meet the conditions of the Humane Slaughter Act.

      And how come none of you “slaughter is the ONLY solution” people ever mention the problem of toxic drug residues in horses? Have you never looked at your horse products and seen the warning “not for use in horses intended for food purposes”? What do you think that means? Huh? Come on, what does it mean? Anyone?

      There is a great disconnect here between what pro-slaughter people want slaughter for, and what slaughter really IS. Slaughter is about making FOOD – HUMAN FOOD. That does NOT include animals that have products that plainly say they cannot be used in food animals.

      Why is this so seemingly over the heads of those who want to use slaughter as a disposal service?

       
  13. Melanie Fetterly

    January 16, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    I love own 6 horses. And god forbid should I die or my financial status ever change that they would have to go to an auction and end up in a slaughter truck, I would not want them to have to travel far, for it to be in facility that has veterinarians on site, monitored by US laws, they are humanely treated and quickly put down. Currently, they would have to trailer all the way from Illinois to possibly Mexico for days to a week, go from the air smelling fresh with our forests, to the arrid, dry, dusty air that would dry their throats with every breath taken. Then they would go into whatever make-shift holding pens left to go hungry and thirsty until poked inside where a knife alone is used by some guy who is hanging on the side of the fence and poking at their necks to get his timing and aim right to jam the knife in and sever the spinal cord or slit the throat, hopefully the first time, then to get pushed aside and let bleed out slowly onto the floor while. I watched and compared the videos posted on You Tube from Canada, Mexico, the US, there is a difference in the methods that are used. But regardless, I for one don’t believe for a second that those who posted this page will ever deem any reasoning for Slaughter as they claim ethical or neccessary and will award anyone any money. And I am somewhat tired of trying to get those who have no real experience with horses to think things through before jumping on these emotional roller coasters of petitions and really, their own propaganda of how they would like everyone who does have functional knowledge to live. So, I challenge this to you………take that $2000.00 and any other funds you can raise (maybe join with HSUS since they are using funds to buy up mass amounts of land), quit your job, and devote all your time, money, and efforts into creating the LARGEST United States horse rescue facility, since it will need to house thousands. Then you can personally and actually help those in need, keep them off the kill trucks, re-home them, educate, and prove to all of us that it can be done in your ‘ethical’ way. Of course, this will be a non-profit facility mostly ran by volunteers, but with the devotion and desire you have maintained, the long strenuous hours would be rewarding. And to show the world it can be done would prove your words aren’t just your propaganda.

     
    • Beverly

      January 16, 2012 at 9:47 pm

      As far as what you said, I do have real experience with horses since 1971. I have owned, shown, bred, sold and had my kids grow up while showing horses. It’s been a wonderful experience for my entire family and still is. This largest of all horse rescues that you propose will not need to house “thousands of horses” because this entire slaughter business is based on supply and demand. Once the demand dries up, there won’t be any supply that needs to be rescued. Think this through – it has to do with economics, not emotion. The other thing that really gets me, not that you mentioned it, but I just wanted to voice it is that slaughter proponents say that the only people against horse slaughter are the romantics, etc. that don’t own horses and don’t understand the horse industry, etc. Well, I am a real horseman and not someone living in the city as these accusations aledge and guess what – live horses contribute more to the horse economy and the general economy than dead ones. Think about all the things that a person with a live horse provides in payment for feed, vet, farrier and all the back up industries that provide these services and products. I haven’t even begun to mention all the side-businesses involved. You get my point.

       
    • Amanda Gray

      January 17, 2012 at 4:17 pm

      I love the longer transport argument! Just last night a truck hauling nearly 40 slaughter horses from Tennessee to another holding facility presumably in TX overturned on a highway. Last time I checked Canada was closer to TN than Mexico! Why would they ship them to Mexico? Because Mexico is more lenient than Canada (and if we had slaughter houses here they’d be more lenient than them as well). So those horses would still be shipped long distances! They’d still go from OH, KY, IN, IL, NJ, NY and so on to MEXICO! And we can’t have a plant in every state so we’d still have to ship them long distances to get them to the slaughter houses!

       
    • Suzanne Moore

      January 19, 2012 at 10:24 pm

      WHO needs to show their words aren’t just propaganda? How about you “Slaughter is the only solution” types? Prove slaughter IS humane. Prove the drug residues in horses don’t matter. Prove an unregulated, non-food animal is safe to eat.

      Me, I have nothing to prove. I’ve owned horses for 35 years, and NEVER had someone else have to take care of my castoffs. And certainly no horse of mine EVER went to slaughter. RESPONSIBILITY. Every horse has an owner, and every owner has a responsibility that they cannot leave to other people. You people can’t seem to understand that it’s the original owners you should be railing at – not those of us who have never fed the slaughter pipeline and never will.

      Why do you want to enable more of the same old same old by continuing to provide these irresponsible leeches exactly what they want?

       
  14. theresa sheak

    January 16, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    there is no reason for any horse to be starving..if you cant affored the high dollar hay go to tractor supply and buy bags of timothy alfalfa pellets..and feed it with your regular feed..it is high in fiber..and much better then some of the cheap worthless hay that is out there right now..i have 7 horses and we are on retirment..and none of mine are staved..if you can afford to feed your horse and take good care of it then list it in the paper or one of the horses for sale sights..dont be stupid and let it stand there and starve to death..or give it to someone that can take care of it..if i could not afford to feed my horses and take good care of them i would give them to someone that could..i just got a horse back from what i thought was an honest good person..and he starved this horse to the point that i did not think i could get him back up..but i have it has cost me big time but he is worth it..he is close to 20 years old…and what he has been through he will be very loved and retired..if you see anyone abuseing a horse or starving a horse..then you should report it..or go to the person and ask them what there problem is and tell them to either give you the horse or you are calling the law on them..dont just stand there and let it happen..and stop taking your horses to the sale barns..

     
  15. samantha conolly

    January 16, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    I just love how my writing gets cut off at punch line! As I was saying ANIMAL CONTROL let me feed a run away horse because they didnt have an owner, or $$$ to care for it. A month went by & than the owner shows up … Who’s out of pocket ? I am w/ an IOU NOTE … owner has both his 2 fillies up for sale … No he can’t pay me! He can’t sell those nice fillies either due to being unrideable I’m guessing since rideable horse are being sold for $200. to $500. W/papers. Now if its this hard to sell healthy nice fillies what do you think that biting, kicking, un-tameable widow-maker is gonna BRING? No-one in their right mind wants the liability of that animal…. So unless all you DO GOODERS will take on an unrideable, liability …. Stfu ! All horse trainers have met a horse like I am talking about, if they say no they’re lieing or need to come on over I know where to take them. And what you all don’t realize is that before when food prices were decent & not overly costly like our milk & gas… those horses were sent away to be put down for recycling. We live on a planet that is suppose to be going green… Recycled Pets is apart of that. Starving ppl here could be eatting horse meat just like UK & OTHERS DO! I personally don’t like horse meat, but I want our factories up so I know animals will be killed humanely & be recycled into dog food; not left to starve in MTs to be braught down by a pack of coyotes or Mt.Lion or driven to Mexico to be bled out ALIVE! I WANT CONTROL BACK…. & SO SHOULD YOU. And think about the Donner Party … someone had to get their hands dirty to survive…. Or they starved. I myself don’t want to dirty my hands so the guy who does it gets a job…. OMG … Plants make more JOBS ! WHERE IS THIS GOING ? MAKING JOBS YOU & I DON’T WANT + PPL to supervise humanely deaths & to continue on to recycling plants … More plants I said! More jobs! Let’s think hard now! Don’t hurt yourselves …..

     
    • Jerry Finch

      January 16, 2012 at 7:27 pm

      This response is a perfect example of typical pro-slaughter logic. There is nothing here, no cohesive thought, no A=B, B=C therefore A=C. Drawing from one experience and concludes with condemning 130,000 horses to death, then adds the old “Jobs” argument and throws in a few starving children and something about dog food and glue factories and add starved animals in Montana, a few coyotes…….

      This is the face of the equine slaughter supporter.

      And with that, my friends, I’m about ready to conclude that there is a not a single person that can discuss this issue in a manner that deserves reflection and proper response.

      I told “The Horse” that I would give it until this weekend. I’ll do my best. After reading this, I feel like I just crawled out of the sewer.

      Samantha – I will not accept another post from you.

       
    • Suzanne Moore

      January 16, 2012 at 7:38 pm

      Our slaughter plants were no more humane than the ones in Mexico and Canada. They are all operated by the EU, and follow their rules. All the same. The USDA did NOTHING. And that’s exactly what they will do if plants ever reopen here. Besides, there is NO way to humanely slaughter horses because of their flight response which is unique among domesticated animals.

      Our horses are not fit for humans to eat. The FDA considers them companion animals so they allow horse products and medications to contain ingredients that are absolutely banned in food animals. ONE exposure and an animal is permanently banned from the human food chain.

      The jobs in slaughter plants were miserable, high turnover, dangerous minimum-wage dehumanizing jobs that were always given to undocumented workers or others who could not go to the law for recourse. Haven’t you read ANYTHING about how it was?

      Abandoning and/or neglecting an animal is a CRIME. I’m sick of you pros trying to hold US hostage to these criminals as if nothing could be done with them but continue to enable their irresponsible, cruel behavior. Throw the creeps in jail and make sure you spread the word that this will happen to anyone else who thinks they can treat animals like garbage. The rescues are NOT full and I’m sure someone somewhere would take these horses. If not, put them down. That’s a HELL of a lot better than slaughter. And don’t say a freaking word about wasting toxic meat!

      As for you, if you’re going to bitch about “getting left holding the bag,” don’t take on any more bags.

       
    • Beverly

      January 16, 2012 at 8:46 pm

      Samantha, some of what you said is a bit contradictory, so not sure where you really stand, but I wanted to address a couple of your comments. As far as killing horses that are dangerous, I couldn’t agree more, but feel a bullet in the head is still the way to go as vs. the slaughterhouse. No matter how bad that individual horse may be, we don’t know how he became that way. And no matter how he became that way, whether it be by genetics or how it was raised, it’s still not the horse’s fault, so he still deserves a decent way to go. Unless, of course you are after REVENGE.

      My other point had to do with feeding the horses to people, our dogs or even the zoo animals.. The meat is contaminated. Do any of these entities deserve to be fed tainted meat? I for one will certainly not buy it to feed to my dogs – I don’t want them to die because as a stupid owner, I didn’t realize what I was feeding them would hurt them. I’m a lot more responsible than that. I love my horses and my dogs.

       
  16. Kathi

    January 16, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    I have a really good reason to continue horse slaughter…this is tongue in cheek for those of you ready to scalp me. I am absolutely against slaughter of our companion animals…but…if we don’t have horse slaughter what will all those ugly, bad-tempered, deceitful, evil people do for a living. Who or what will they have to be cruel to? They would have to get REAL jobs, and be nice to someone. They would have to be honest, and prove that they can be trusted. They would have to punch a clock and work in the real world instead of bonding with the good ole boys at the sale barn and bragging about how many horses they killed this year. I have seen these people…

     
    • Suzanne Moore

      January 16, 2012 at 7:40 pm

      I’ve seen them too, Kathi. A truly nasty bunch of thugs.

       
  17. Jennifer

    January 16, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    based on the arguments against slaughter here..

    horse slaughter should be allowed and legal for the same reasons abortion is. I value human life more than horse life, and parents murder their unborn babies all the time.
    :) let the attacks begin. I’ll read all the responses, but I won’t answer.

    If I win $2000, keep half, give me the other half in horse quality hay and storage.

     
    • Suzanne Moore

      January 16, 2012 at 7:50 pm

      Another one who doesn’t know that our horses are NOT food animals, are not regulated as such and horse products and medications contain ingredients that are absolutely banned in food animals. HOW can you NOT KNOW THIS AFTER ALL THIS TIME? Even for drugs that DO have withdrawal times, we have no way of knowing when/if a given horse has been exposed to them, and whether the withdrawal time has been met.

      If you don’t want an abortion, no one is going to force it on you. As long as horse slaughter exists, NO horse is safe. They get stolen far more often than you would believe. I believe because I lived through it. The killers also purchase horses under false pretenses from people who would NEVER knowingly send their horses to slaughter. YOU get to have a choice (although I take it you would deny that to others). Horses and their owners don’t always have such a privilege. This is comparing apples to oranges in more ways than one. UGH!

      FAIL

       
  18. Amanda Gray

    January 16, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    I really wish all of these so called horse-lovers who think slaughter is a “necessary evil” would stop to think that slaughter is currently available… yet… all of the things that make slaughter necessary are still currently happening! I mean come on! I may be young (no I’m not 16) and all but I can clearly see that even though you can still take a horse to an auction and it will be bought by a kill buyer (which will outbid a private home, mind you) there are horses still being abused and neglected! Horse slaughter has NOT stopped. It’s been available for 30 plus years. NOTHING has changed because the people who neglect, abuse, over breed are going to do so no matter what! The only thing horse slaughter does is invite a criminal aspect into the horse industry by welcoming abuse, neglect, theft and falsified documentations.

    Here soon I will have two spots open for two horses. I’m going to see just how much of a problem this unwanted horse situation is. I’m going to offer homes to two extremely well broke, beginner safe horses. I’d like a draft gelding, Percheron preferably, and a good safe ten to fifteen year old smaller mare. I’d like both of them to have no health problems, be easy keepers with no vices. Since we have this huge unwanted horse problem where thousands of horses are being given away I’d like the horses to be free and brought to me. Just let me know when you are coming with them. Thanks : )

     
    • Melanie Fetterly

      January 16, 2012 at 5:26 pm

      No, you should take 2 completely unbroke horses and house them. One of them a young stud who needs complete training, maybe a PMU baby; the other a 23 yr old who has had a leg injury and can never be used again except as a pasture pet. Why not offer your expertise, love, time, money, and extra space to an animal who isn’t placed into a home so easily? Why are you putting specifications on what you want? That is just getting another horse. Take in 2 of the unwanteds if you want to prove a point.

       
      • Amanda Gray

        January 17, 2012 at 4:20 pm

        But we have such a huge un-wanted horse problem I should be able to find horses that are usable and young.. right? You are saying only the old and crippled are unwanted. News flash, I currently have a stud that is not broke to ride, a horse that is too young and a horse that has an attitude problem. I want them. : )

         
  19. Darci Hortness

    January 16, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    well it seems like something is happening anyway. seems like most of us agree that there are too many horses still being bred every year. let’s get our veterinarians to say that, let’s get our breed associations to say that, let’s get our breeders to say that. let’s get our breeders to say, “ok guys, you know what, if we raised fewer foals we’d all get more money for all of them. and let’s train our broodmares as riding horses too, so later on we can sell them to a family, and let’s sell our working ranch horses a few years before they are so lame they can hardly walk, let’s sell those old deserving guys to a nice family to get their kids started on a nice, de-spooked horse. I really think you’d get more for an old work horse that the kids could learn to safely ride on, than what you’d get from the slaughterhouse. I think most parents think their childrens’ safety is worth quite a bit. more than a killbuyer would pay for an old broken down horse, that’s for sure. If people didn’t get paid to send a horse to slaughter, they would NEVER send their horses to slaughter. They would do what’s right, what’s right for the horse. Not what’s right for the moneyclip.

     
  20. ellen goodman

    January 16, 2012 at 11:02 am

    There are people who think that horses, dogs, pigs, chickens, etc. are beautiful and intelligent beings related by their DNA to human beings, and there are people who think that the same animals are commodities, objects like cars or tvs that humans can treat however they want. I believe that some day future generations will look back on us as savage, brutal ancestors not too different from cavemen. You do not really love horses if you are willing to have your own or anyone else’s sent to a slaughter house. You like them as toys or props, but not as creatures with inherent value of their own. If you have so many horses that you can’t afford a vet of food for them, then you are a hoarder, and you have a psychological disease. If you send your beloved companion horse to be slaughtered, then you do not love your horse, you only like to collect toys. I work for the day when people will develop enough intelligence and sensitivity to care for horses and other animals as much as they care for us. So far, we fail, and those of you who are here to win a prize by arguing in favor of horse slaughter are failures as human beings no matter how many horses or how much money you have.

     
  21. Jeff Hudson

    January 16, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Turning a blind eye and accepting something as a Necessary evil is not the answer either. You are either against it or you are for it. Saving the two have and turning away for the 130,000 a year that are slaughtered is only a cop out. Slaughter does not prevent abuse or neglect. People that do that will do it with slaughter here or over the border. Slaughter is not going to wake them up. As far as farms getting tax breaks for having horses. Screw farmers and their farms. Ranchers and their ranches. They get tax breaks way to far and above the rest of us on top of us paying them subsidies and paying them for lost crops every year. I have had tax breaks taken from me. When they step forward and speak up of me having to pay more to support them then I might change my tune. Horses are not tax breaks, income or any other form of human support. They are a separate living sentient being that has the RIGHT to a safe place on this planet just as we do. There is no such thing as a outlaw, rouge or dangerous horses, that is a cheap cop out of all the people out there that claim they know a smidgen about training a horse but really don’t know anything about it but some old cowboy abuse that they pass off as training. Man made that way so its mans responsibility to repair what damage he or she created not to just right off Their mistakes and make money sending the horse to slaughter. IT SHOULD NEVER BE ONLY ABOUT THE MONEY! The horse market will not recover as man is to busy building houses on pasture land and has moved onto other hobbies. Slaughtering horses never did or has had anything to do with the real horse industry.

     
    • Melanie Fetterly

      January 16, 2012 at 8:46 pm

      What tax break for having horses is that? Not being rude here either, just asking because I’m not aware of any. My taxes have gone up 4 times over 7 years and I have 6 acres with 6 horses. I don’t get any tax break in my area.

       
      • Beverly

        January 16, 2012 at 8:59 pm

        The tax break comes if you are in business – might miss a few here, but here goes: boarding, training, lessons, breeding (if raising horse to sell at a profit), etc. I am a breeder (I might add that I am a responsible breeder in that I only breed quality, not quantity, and have very respectable stallions and mares, not junk – in other words. I am not a backyard breeder and have not even bred for any foals for the last 2 years in a row so as to not add to the problem). If you are in the horse business to make a profit, you can then write off your expenses against your income on Schedule F of 1040. You must be able to back this up with receipts and a true profit motive.

         
  22. Angela Kinney

    January 16, 2012 at 10:26 am

    To Jerry Finch and HfH – GOD BLESS YOU!!!!!!!!! You are my heroes and I stand behind you 100%!

     
  23. Teri Lynne Parks

    January 16, 2012 at 9:33 am

    I have been a horse lover/fanatic since I was born. I started lessons in CA when I was four but did not own my own horse until I turned 12 and we moved to WA state. After I turned 17 my mom sold my horse because I was leaving for college and I was out of the tangible side of horses until 20 years later when I moved to TN. During that in between time I rode horses in HA, DC, GA and plastered my face on the window of any car I was in when I saw a horse in a pasture or being rode. Yes, even as an adult, my reverence for God’s noblest creature was still rampant in my character.

    It wasn’t until I was in my later thirties that I once again owned horses. I purchased my little black mare at an auction for $500. We purchased two more at the auction at later time for my children and not one were registerable to any breed. They were throwoff, heinz 57, however, they were obviously of quarter horse breeding and there was one that I would have bet money had papers at one time but since she was so old they were gone. We purchased several horse from individuals as rescues because they were skin and bones and/or abused. We lost one due to her age and the length of time of starvation. But her last six months, she was filled with love as we used her as a lesson pony for 4 and 5 year olds. She taught them how to love a blind, hidebound old mare who walked on eggs around the babies she could only hear. When she did pass, as the vet predicted with the first heavy cold spell, many cried. Others went on to be successful in what we helped them to be, but I have lost contact with them over the years as children out grew ponies and they were sold again. But such is the life of a pony, for the most part. My black mare was with me until the day I put her down, never, I swore to her, would she ever enter another auction or be sold and I kept that promise. Another horse we bought was given to a neighbor who needed an older mare as a playmate for his stallion. They were unseparable and she calmed him down. When she finally passed two years later, the stallion wept for a week and refused to eat. Another horse I sold to be able to afford to put down my soulmate black mare.

    This was said so that I could show you my love and background with horses. I was never in them for money or to win competitions, albeit my children did run barrels some and I did show some western pleasure, we were never a threat to anyone because we did so because we loved it. I have seen more abuse and neglect here in TN, than I have ever seen in my life. Horses standing in two feet of manure in their dark stalls, souring of the great steeds just to make them look flashier with the “big lick” and I have seen horse so scared of humans that they would rather cower in the corner of their stalls than walk forward for food. THESE are the people that you are asking to care for and about their horses. People like us…who love our four-legged friends are much fewer and farther in between.

    The only way we can EVER efficiently have no reason for slaughter is for ALL of mankind to stop overbreeding, stop using horses as a financial means to an end and to stop abusing the same just for the greater financial end. Since you and I both know this will NEVER happen, there has to be something else done, and unfortunately it is an unsightful and unghastly thing. While I am not a proponant of horse slaughter, I understand its place. I would die a thousand deaths before ever sending a horse of mine to slaughter and since I have no intentions of ever selling the two I currently have (one is the colt of my mare I had to put down and the other is one awesome mare given to me because the people decided they no longer wanted to feed her) I will not be purchasing any more horses. My children are grown now with family of their own (well, one still thinks he is kid, but pays his own bills and that is another story altogether). My cat and two horses are my children now. Too many people do not think far enough ahead to be able to know what they are going to do.

    PMU mares and foals, overbreeding, starvation, abuse, rogues age, lack of performance and horses that fall into the holes waiting for their next loving owner are the reasons behind slaughter. Each and everyone one of these reasons can be handled by man, but man refuses too. The fault lies on our back and no one else’s. However, that being said, while slaughter might be a necessary evil, the treatment of animals of any kind before their final breath is to me what is so much more important than what causes their final breath.

    This is an emotionally charged issue. To change horses to a pet status would cost farms millions for they could no longer claim loss/profit on taxes, but the pet status would be the only way to permanently remove the horses from the slaughter scare. To leave them as a livestock only states one thing…they are for money and as with all livestock, they can be used for consumption.

     
    • Jerry Finch

      January 16, 2012 at 9:48 am

      To say that you would never, ever send you horse to slaughter, yet say it is perfectly fine for 130,000 other horses to go to slaughter – do you not see a problem with that?

      Then to say that you see abuse and neglect in TN – did you report it? These acts are criminal. It is against the law to commit these acts you describe. That’s like saying, “I see people robbing banks everyday.” Then you as a citizen, and even more so as a horse person, should be acting to stop these criminal acts.

      Overbreeding is a direct result of having access to horse slaughter. Stopping horse slaughter will stop overbreeding. Simple supply and demand economics

       
    • Suzanne Moore

      January 16, 2012 at 10:15 pm

      Statistics have proven that in California, Illinois and Texas that when the slaughter plants were gone, abuse, neglect and abandonment went DOWN. Slaughter encourages these things – it will NEVER cure them.

      After all these years with slaughter, some people still can’t figure it out. Or, maybe they don’t WANT to.

       
      • ResponsibleEndOfLifeSolutions

        January 23, 2012 at 10:52 pm

        I would like to see the statistics that prove in California, Illinois and Texas, when the slaughter plants were gone, abuse, neglect and abandonment went DOWN.

        Can you provide me a link?

         
      • Jerry Finch

        January 24, 2012 at 6:17 am

        http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/Position_Papers_Studies.html

        To endoflife – The studies are available to anyone who wishes to do their own research. This blog will not act as a continual venue for you who keep making pro-slaughter statements even after we have discussed the issue ad nauseum. Your statement that 95% of your followers believe in the necessity of slaughter tells me all I need to know about you. Followed by your statement that you are not concerned about the effects of the drugs on people (“Food safety doesn’t interest me. My concern in this discussion is the welfare of horses not humans.) Sorry, but this is not your forum. You are a voice for the slaughter industry.

        To continue to throw out “my statistics show” when in fact they do not and expect a response is a waste of my time. Any further responses from you will only be allowed through if they show an effort on your part to follow a logical conclusion.

         
      • Suzanne Moore

        January 24, 2012 at 10:42 am

        This is to ResponsibleEndOfLifeSolutions ~ Here is a link to one of the studies showing abandonment, theft and abuse go UP with slaughter plants, and DOWN when they leave: http://www.animallawcoalition.com/horse-slaughter/article/541

        BTW, I had personal experience with what we horse owners had to put up with when Beltex and Dallas Crown were operating in Texas. It was HELL.

         
  24. vthorseshoe (Bruce Matthews)

    January 16, 2012 at 7:49 am

    In the scheme of things, animals eat animals. Why not donate your old, or un-wanted animals to zoo’s so they can be fed to the preditors that are living there on display.
    In this manner your not sending them to a slaughter house for human consumption or for financial gain.
    In the wild there are very few crippled animals running around because the preditory animals eat them and that is the way “GOD” set up the his kingdom…..

    I have over 40 years of working in the horse industry as a farrier. I have seen the best of care and on a daily bases I see the worst of care. All say they “LOVE” their horses.
    The majority, love the concept of LOVE MY HORSE but know little to nothing of the care required for said animals.
    I have seen actual intended abuse and more often unknowledgable,unintended abuse from folks who don’t even know they are being abusive.

    I don’t have the answers or the solutions but I can tell you there are too many animals bred in this country just so a person can hold that cute little baby horse. Trouble is, like with puppies and bunnies, colts and fillies grow into mature animals and soon are no longer wanted.
    Animals should be gelded or fixed or nuetered or spayed with no chancew of reproducing more unwanted animals.
    If there was a regulatory board made up of honestly truely knowledgable folks who could decide what animals would be kept for breeding stock then we could reduce the billions of dollars wasted on caring for unwanted animals.

    Bruce Matthews
    Southeast Texas horse Shoeing
    Alvin, Texas

     
    • Teri Lynne Parks

      January 16, 2012 at 9:35 am

      Most horsemeat in the US is sold to zoos to feed the predators. You cannot euthanize an animal and then throw it out to the lions for the lions would then ingest the drugs themselves. This is the reason why euthanasia is not allowed to be used on any animal bound for human consumption as well.

       
    • Jeff Hudson

      January 16, 2012 at 10:49 am

      I like your reply but just one thing, I have NEVER wasted one daollar taking care of a unwanted horse as I am sure most people that do care dont either.

       
  25. Sarah Rabinowitz Mognoni

    January 16, 2012 at 5:29 am

    On this Martin Luther King holiday, I say, on behalf of horses, dogs, cats, pigs, cattle-animals everywhere-from the old spiritual-“Go Tell it on the Mountain-Let My People Go.” The original words “Jesus Christ was Born” were rewritten by Peter, Paul, and Mary in the 1960’s to be supportive of the civil rights movement-let us now GRANT ANIMALS CIVIL RIGHTS! What we need is high-powered celebrities (like Spielberg, Parelli, John Lyons, Matt Damon, etc.) to put the same energy and financial power into ending slaughter that they put into the promotion of their worthy art forms. Labrador Hill Farm’s new ad for natural horsemanship and the sanctuary promotes the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act-when I speak to groups about our special needs program I educate on the issue. Again, to draw on the history of civil rights and in the words of Frederick Douglas-Agitate, agitate, agitate! Good work, Jerry!

     
    • Teri Lynne Parks

      January 16, 2012 at 9:38 am

      While charged as your spot is, thought through it is not. I am sorry, I love my meat and will never be a vegetarian and since God or evolution, which ever you believe, created the human to be a meat eating predator, I shall remain so. As I said earlier, it is the dignity and treatment that they animal is afforded before the last breath which is so much more important.

       
      • faith

        January 16, 2012 at 12:55 pm

        You need to look at ancient history. Meat eating is a relatively new custom for humans. In ancient Egypt meat was rarely eaten and in Medieval Europe the peasants had meat on only a few occasions. Many cultures do not eat meat Jain for example. Read your Bible man is only to eat animals with gloven hoofs. We lack the canine incisors and do not require meat to exist. You would be surprised if you took the time to learn how many famous humans did not eat meat.
        To those who believe this is only an emotional issue, read the many purely rational articles about the ethical treatment of animals grounded in both utilitarian and deontological ethics. Based on pure logic, one can provide a strong argument against slaughter which follows logically from the principles of both religious and secular theories of ethics.

         
  26. Charles Wisely

    January 16, 2012 at 2:05 am

    WELL it DOESNT MATTER MUCH WHAT WE THINK OR WEATHER FOR THEY ARE KILLING HORSES ANYWHERE. ITS JUST COMPLAINING AND A WASTE OF PRECIOUS LIFE . YOU KNOW THE BIGGEST PROBLEM COMES FROM THOSE OF US THAT LOVE THEM THE MOST WITH OUR BREEDING OF ATHLETES TO COMPETE AND SHOW AND THE NOT THE BIGG WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER THEN WE DISCARD SEND DOWN THE ROAD WHEN WE SHOULD PASTURE AND RETIRE FIND HOME HELL FOLKS WE KILL BABYS FACE IT WE ARE KILLERS AND ALLOWING IS ACCEPTING AND ACCEPTING IS PULLING THE TRIGGEUNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO PHYSICALLY STOP IT BY ANY MEANS THE THEY WIN OR THEY CHANGE THE RULES AGAIN THANK S ROW vs WADE thanks BLM thanx america for allowing us to basically be a people of no regard lessen it suits our needs and hell we really need to be feeding our hungry and stop killing over war HELP YOUR NEIGHBOR {B E P R O-ACTIVE}_ every day to all for all
    it starts with leaning forward when you walk walk like your going somewhere or get out of my way please can i get you adrink or a sandwiche maybe life would be less tragic if we lended ahand before the tornado
    and stopped putting or elderly family out to pasture and take care of our own and more well i could write abook and it wouldnt change athing guess i best be pro active or lay down and fall for any thing engncharlie o yea sorry about my spelling STOP KILLING THE HELPLESS AND STARVING AMERICA we dont even build things we send them else where ………………………no wonder every one walks around with there hands in ther pocket and there head down……………………………SHAME>>>>>>>>>shame on us all

     
  27. Katelyn

    January 16, 2012 at 1:48 am

    I understand that you are doing what you believe is right. I know that you are asking for an expert to reply with solid facts that will prove you wrong. Well I will guarantee that you will never get a reply that will satisfy you. Just as you will never be able to give solid facts that will satisfy everyone else. In the end it is all a matter of opinion and the continual arguing will get nowhere. I am only 16 years old. I do not claim to be an expert and I have no scientifically proven facts to give you. All I have are my own opinions and observations. All of which are my own and not those of my parents or peers. I don’t want to give argument, merely a different point of view. After all facts are nothing more than things that peopl know to be true, correct? Well here are a few things that I know. I know that I love my horses with all my heart. They are my passion and my world. I have competed mainly in rodeo as well as many other horse related events since I was 3 years old. As you can imagine I have heard my fill of animal rights propaganda. There are plenty of people out there who are capable of ending my family’s way of life. I live on a large ranch with my parents and two younger sisters. We own around 130 horses. Another thing that I know is that my passion is an expensive one. Especially when it is shared with my two younger sisters. I know that the economy is slow. With the slow economy and a father who works in the oilfield I understand that money is tight. I know that vet bills are expensive. I know that with this many horses one is bound to get hurt. When I was little we had one or two horses per year who were either to dangerous for handling or were hurt beyond repair which we would send to slaughter. Before there are any comments made about saying I love my horses let me make something clear. These are not family pets, competition horses, or useful horses that we would send. They are often broken down brood mares or rank animals which posed a threat to those who work with them. They were sent where they would be able to be used by someone or something, rather than live a life of suffering. Were it to be my barrel horse that came up crippled we would do all possible to fix him. If advised by our vet he would be put to sleep and burried in a special place on our two thousand acres. The choice is a matter of priority. Much like when a deer runs in front of your car. Do you hit the deer or swerve to avoid it? In hitting the deer one of gods creatures suffers. But in swerving to avoid it you could possibly wreck. Perhaps killing your wife and your baby girl. It’s all in perspective. I know that people think it is inhumane to slaughter horses. I know that it costs money to put a horse to sleep at a vets. I don’t see it being more humane when we can’t afford for the vet to come put the horse down so therefore my dad has to shoot the horse himself. I don’t see it being humane that the horse will be burried to be eaten by insects when it could have given nourishment to someone else, or even another animal. I don’t eat horse meat and I never will. But if others do then how can I condem them for it? I know that people say why not sell the horse to someone who wants them? Or give them to a sanctuary? Well we’re I live there are plenty of people trying to make ends meet. Even if we gave them the horse for free they couldn’t afford to feed it. I don’t see it being humane to give a horse to someone only to see it starve. Were I live we have no sanctuaries. From what I hear a lot of them are over filled and can barely take care of the animals they have. I know that many people who post on these blogs do it from their condos, suburbs, all of their 2 acres of land. Not all, but many don’t have facilities nor the expertise to take care of one of these 1500 pound animals. Many of these animals are probably 10 times smarter than the people who think they are protecting them. Other people may know what they are talking about and have experience in this area. But heck I don’t know, I’m just a kid right? People can, and will continue to rant and argue about the topic of animal rights. That is probably the only proven fact that will ever come out of it. But if there is one thing that I would ask it would be this; leave people to their free will and their lifestyle choices. Because it is family’s like mine which make the horse industry even possible. Thank you.

     
    • Nina L. Margetson

      January 16, 2012 at 7:04 am

      Katelyn,
      You being a “Kid” have the ability to make a change in the horse industry. You, being a “kid” can make the bigger difference then any adult can imagine.
      You state you have 130 horses. May I ask why? Just so you can try and find the “perfect” horse. The one that will win you the big prize?
      Or do you have 130 horses to try and make money by over breeding in a slow economy?
      I do not begrudge the horse breeder as long as they are breeding for quality to improve the breed. Not to try and produce the perfect winner, or color, or sex, or just to breed to breed.
      You do need to educate yourself more on this issue though, so when you become an adult you WILL know the right answer.
      Responsible Sanctuaries don’t take horse meat for the same reason we shouldn’t feed horses to people, to many drugs that are harmful in the meat.
      It is not the sick, starving horses that go to slaughter, that is not usable meat. It is the family companion that owners thought were going to good homes when the old horse trader (unknown by the family) says he is buying it for his grandkids to ride. It is the stolen horses that an owner loves and respects for the joy it brings them to own that horse.
      A shot to the head (when done correctly) and allowing other animals and insects to feed in the wild is fine by me. It is the cycle of life. But this can not be confused with what happens when a horse makes the slaughter trip.

      Also keep in mind “Slaugher for human comsumption” IS NOT the same as sending a already dead horse to the Rendering Plant. This is where I feel a lot of people get confused on this issue.

      And I can assure you that these “slaughtered” horses ARE NOT going over seas to feed starving children.

      I could go on and on, but I’ll stop here.

      Take that horse who wins you those ribbons and look into its eyes when they light up seeing you come across the pasture to get it for a ride. Really look. Watch how it knows you and wants to please you. Would it not be more humane to have a humane death when the time comes then to be put through the fear and torture of the ride to a slaughter plant just for that last almighty dollar?

      If you can own 130 horses you should be able to offer this. If not? Then you shouldn’t have 130 horses, much less one.

      Responsibility comes with all aspects of life, two legged or four. God gave us dominion over the animals and this is to be cherished. When he returns someday it will be on the back of a horse as stated in Revelations and that tells me all I need to know.

      Nina L. Margetson
      Executive Director
      Horse Haven of Tennessee

       
      • CanAmFam

        January 16, 2012 at 8:17 am

        Amen Nina.

         
      • Teri Lynne Parks

        January 16, 2012 at 8:55 am

        Very well said and expressed for a child. I enjoy reading a grammatically correct statement with few if any spelling errors from any of our children these days. Your writing shows your intelligence and your ability to think things through and place them into a logical statement. And with no text or chatspeak.

         
      • Teri Lynne Parks

        January 16, 2012 at 9:41 am

        Another problem we have is the fact that rendering plants are becoming non-existent. Or if there is one in your area, they want to charge you several hundred dollars to come out and pick up a product they will make money on and that you are not charging them for. Once again, greed. The “dead wagon” ceased to exist in my area a few years ago. Farmers are now forced to leave their stock laying in the fields if they cannot dig a ditch. Such a sad affair.

         
    • Laura

      January 16, 2012 at 8:54 am

      You have said you own 130 horses, may I ask how many of these do you breed every year? How many of these “broken down” broodmares do you own? Trying to find that perfect barrel horse? The right color? Someone who owns 130 horses in my opinion is very much doing their job to contribute to the horse industry problems of today.

       
      • Teri Lynne Parks

        January 16, 2012 at 9:44 am

        While I agree about the over population issue, you cannot make someone think differently about they way they were raised, nor can you condemn them for there are things YOU do that they mayhap condemn. This is a child and has been raised as such, she has not had time to live on her own and learn on her own. She does not own, but her family owns. And unfortunately, 130 horses are few compared to thousands upon thousands of other farms who actually see each horse as a dollar sign.

         
    • Amanda Gray

      January 16, 2012 at 9:07 am

      Katelyn,

      You have 130 horses but can’t afford to properly euthanize one? Hmm… I think you see horses as more of a commodity than an actual “partner”. What happens if you guys happen to lose your farm? All of the foals from your breeding operation will be pumped into the horse population and the people that run rescues will scramble to home them so they don’t end up in a slaughter house. Because you guys gave no thought to slowing down on how many horses you breed or own. And sending your used up broodmares to a slaughter house is simply pathetic. They produced foals that probably won you ribbons and you dump them. Your parents are doing a wonderful job of teaching you girls responsibility. By that I mean they are basically saying when you can’t use something anymore, being a living breathing thing or not, don’t fix it or give it to someone else .. dump it in the most heinous way possible. You don’t raise something from day one and just throw it away. You don’t pick which horses are worth not going to slaughter and which ones are just because you have the “right” by property laws. Especially when you have every opportunity of disposing of that horse in a more humane manner. You can find a home for it, you can shoot it yourself, you can have a vet put it down. You CHOOSE to send them to slaughter because they have no monetary value to you. Thus, money is more important than life in your eyes? That’s a grand life lesson to pass on… (sarcasm). Not to mention with every foal you produce you are taking away a home a horse in need could go to. With 130 horses it’s not surprise you have rank ones that can’t be worked because you probably don’t have time to figure out what that one horse’s problem is. Most horses that are rank are fixable with the proper amount of time and patience. But at 130 head… I bet your time per horse is limited to you going out and playing with your favorite while the others eat and produce you babies… That’s kind of sad in this current day. With horses of value going so cheaply.

      By your post I realize you are a big girl and can handle this. So you tell me… since you admit to sending some of your horses to slaughter. How many horses that you sent to a kill auction had bute? Bantamine? Wormer? How many horses were so lame that before the vet came out you loaded them with pain reliever? Tell me how many times you knowingly sent a horse with drugs in them that are clearly labeled not for horses intended for human consumption to be processed? To me you and your family are part of the problem. Not part of the solution. You have offered not one bit of proof that this barbaric practice is in anyway a decent disposal for animals that were not raised for that purpose.

       
    • Beverly

      January 16, 2012 at 9:31 am

      Katelyn, I wish to reply to the following sentence: “I don’t see it being more humane when we can’t afford for the vet to come put the horse down so therefore my dad has to shoot the horse himself.” Yes, if you can’t afford the vet to euthanize the horse, it is infinitely more humane for your dad or someone else to shoot the horse if they know what they are doing. Done properly, death is instantaneous. From my understanding, it is actually more humane than the pink juice which sometimes can take a few minutes to work. Bullets are cheap.

       
    • Tracey Snyder

      January 16, 2012 at 11:26 am

      Katelyn, I own horses and understand the care of them. Every day I sacrifice my wants and needs to take care of my responsibility to the horses entrusted in my care. Horse ownership is a choice, and if you chose to let it be your way of life, then it is your responsibility to take care of the animals properly and humanely. I understand financial burdens, please know this the economy is tight every where not just where you are from. I personally started a hay bank to help those struggling with feeding their horses and the rescues helping horses that are slaughter bound. What I do not understand is how anyone would think it is OK to take a horse that is “hurt beyond repair” or a used up brood mare and put it on a trailer for days on end only to end up slaughter bound? I do not understand how some horses are loved and would not be sent but others not so much? Make no mistake slaugher is not kind or humane it is a horrible death to “fluffy” your barrel horse or the horse out in your field that has know choice or anyone to care for it. You say slaughter is kinder than your father shooting the animal, I disagree, at least the horse’s death is less stressful with a lot less agony and betrayal. Anyone that thinks slaugher it OK should follow a horse from the auction in the trailer to the shoot up to their death. This is America and we all have a right to our opinion, however anyone in the horse industry from racing to breeders should and must be held accountable for the safety and well being of the horse.

       
    • faith

      January 16, 2012 at 1:15 pm

      Katelyn you are assigning only extrinsic value to horses based on their usefulness to you. From an ethical perspective, that is unacceptable. Horses have intrinsic value. Freewill is not an ethical term but a psychological term that claims that human nature is not determined but completely free as opposed to hard determinism or soft determinism. The correct term is liberty or freedom. However, everyone recognizes liberty limiting principles. Mill’s principle of direct harm argues that your liberty ends when you harm someone else. This is not merely an emotional issue or someone’s opinion. The claim that horse slaughter is unjust is logically deductible from the basic tenets of most ethical theories. It is illegal to allow your horse to starve what is needed is stricter penalties for those who abuse/neglect their animals. Overpopulation is a human created problem iand can only be solved justly by stopping the overbreeding. I have cared for horses, ducks, geese, cats, pigs, goats and sheep for most of my adult life. I do know what it is like to be up at 4AM everyday to care for them before going to work. Your family represents only a small portion of the Americam horse industry. My state has a large horse population and a large part of the money spent is to care for aged equines and we have a flourishing commercial horse burial and crematorium industry here. We support the vets, feed stores etc. Senior feed is now 18.65 a 50# bag but is a big selling item. Yes we bury on the farm after euthanasia is performed by a vet but many people here pay the 2,500 fee for cremation or more to have their horse buried in a commercial cemetery. I own over 20 equines most of which cannot be ridden but they will never go to slaughter. The Kentucky people are now going to Japan to recliam their athletes to make sure their athletes are not slaughtered like Ferdinand

       
  28. Friends Don't Eat Friends

    January 16, 2012 at 12:51 am

    I wish we could have a true and false list of these things that the pro-slaughter folks put out, a list from a respected source, so that we could all use the same list and we can use it to inform the public AND keep these brain dead people from spewing their idiotic propaganda without at least an intelligent come back.

     
    • joshdaniel

      January 16, 2012 at 3:40 pm

      Unfortunately, no ‘respected source’ will be accepted by both sides. I don’t care what side you’re arguing for. I know I’m biased. We all are. Ya, that would be nice, having a non-biased opinion, but… those don’t really exist. Whoever makes the true and false list will lean one way or the other. So, it’s a nice thought, but in reality it won’t ever happen

       
      • Jerry Finch

        January 16, 2012 at 3:53 pm

        Josh – What would be nice is for a respectful, logical discussion to take place. No, in that you are right, it never will, and that is extremely sad and says far more than it should about our society. I have absolutely no respect for respect for horse killers – just as I have no respect for anyone that walks around beating dogs, little kids or spouses. However, the slaughter industry cannot live without drawing those people in and employing them. It cannot live without creating the propaganda that hundreds of thousands of horses are unwanted, and attempting to convince the horse industry that slaughter is necessary.

        I would love to have a rational discussion with those who will not repeat the lies as if they were gospel. Respect or not, that discussion must happen if we collectively want to solve the problem.

         
      • faith

        January 16, 2012 at 11:27 pm

        Joshdaniel you confuse opinion and a justified position. Opinion is an unjustified view while a justified position is grounded in a theoretical perspective or scientific fact. Yes a sound (an argument which is logically valid and factually accurate) argument can and has been made by many individuals that slaughter is morally unjustifiable. The problem in most of these post is that the writers seem to lack knowledge of both formal logic and ethical theory and just state their opinion as if it were fact. I give you the example of the abortion statement. Jennifer has compared two ethically disanalogous issues as if they were analogous then attempts to draw the conclusion that slaughter is acceptable and legal for the same reason that abortion is legal. First a reading of the majority opinion handed down in Roe v wade employs the trimester approach because the court has argued that “philosophers, theologians and scientists cannot agree on when life begins.” The court then employs viability as the point of demarcation of abortion acceptability. the issue in Roe Wade is when does life begin??? How is that analogous to horse slaughter. There of course is ethical disgreement on the question of personhood and whether or not the fetus is a person.

         
  29. joshdaniel

    January 15, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    (Editor Note – Since joshdaniel talks about possibly winning the $2,000, I will answer hime here. Yes, the Challenge is very real and yes, it will be paid out if/when a logical, proven statement supporting horse slaughter is made.
    If you are saying that we need slaughter for those horses that are “underfed, diseased,” then sorry – slaughterhouses will not take those. The order is for healthy horses that have not EVER been given medication marked, “Not for use on animals meant for human consumption.” The EU regulations will soon be more strongly enforced, but not soon enough.

    As to your argument that horse slaughter means “jobs, food and usable products,” the I have more bad news – horse slaughter doesn’t hand these out either. The handful of jobs have mostly been illegals paid minimum wage. The costs to the local economy surrounding slaughterhouses ran into the millions of dollars – tax payer dollars. The Federal Government is saddled with paying inspectors (your tax dollars) so foreign companies can make the profits. The net profit for America was negative.

    And now you are back to the old argument of either starve them or slaughter them. They why have them in the first place? Is that what you do to your dogs? Your children?

    BTW – I personally despise PETA.)

    Ok, seriously? You accuse your opposition of having no facts, and yet I didn’t find a single good argument listed in this article. I’m 16 and I can see that. Anybody that does come up with an argument will never get the money. You don’t intend to give it out, because you’ve already decided that you’re right and that’s the end of it. Just coming from the perspective of somebody who appreciates a well reasoned argument, this article is crap, to be blunt.
    Now. I do not personally raise horses. Cows, Goats, Pigs, Chickens, Turkeys… yes. No horses though… makes me kind of sad. A ton of people where I live do. These are people who have raised horses their whole lives. Their fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers raised horses. And they love them. Not only are they one of their best ‘tools,’ they are companions. These farmers aren’t greedy money mongers. I know guys who have literally millions of dollars worth of land, water rights, livestock and equipment. One in particular probably owns well over 10 million dollars of property. He lives in a modest home, drives a truck to work every day, helps out anyone he can. One of the best guys I know. He’s not a greedy money mongering monster. Neither are any of the other farmers in the area. Those aren’t the type of people in the area.

    But. There’s always a but. I can’t think of a single person in the area that I have talked the issue over with, and not had them outraged at the anti-slaughter laws. Well, obviously these are horrible, inhumane, horse hating devils of the infernal pit!?!?!… or not. Why are they mad? Because most of them can’t AFFORD to keep a horse that is no longer useful. That friend of mine? Ya, he can afford to. And he usually does. But let’s say we take somebody who isn’t wealthy. Somebody who’s barely hanging on to his livelihood. Let’s say they need four horses to run their place. Those four get old, they buy four more. So they’re just supposed to keep eight horses now, right? A lot of them can’t. You see these pictures and videos of horribly underfed, diseased horses? It’s because sadly, in a lot of cases, the owners don’t have another way. They can’t afford to feed the animal, so they simply don’t.
    The people in this area, and most of the horse slaughter proponents who I’ve met, are very practical people. They hate seeing waste. They hate seeing an animal pine away, because it isn’t useful anymore. Truth is, there’s nothing wrong with eating a horse. No more than a cow, or a chicken, or a pig. It’s an animal. In the US, we have a thing against eating them. Ok, I’m not going to force you to eat it. But the truth is, a lot of good comes from the slaughter of horses. Jobs, products, etc. I won’t blame the economy all on horses, but it doesn’t help. Now if you’re from PETA, then the whole issue is kind of a moot point, because you’re against killing animals period. No matter what the consequences to humans. But for me, I’ll take jobs, food, and other products over starving unusable horses. Call me a monster. But where I come from, having an animal killed and put to good use is a whole lot more humane than letting the thing starve to death. Chew on that.

    What? no $2,000?? Really? Hmmm, not too surprised. My point is proven. You just read this, and completely ignored my arguments. Why? Because you already decided that I was wrong as soon as you saw that I was for horse slaughter. But it’s ok. Maybe a few people will actually listen. Maybe ;)

     
    • magiclady6698

      January 16, 2012 at 7:03 am

      You aren’t offering anything NEW, DIFFERENT, or RATIONAL in your so-called ‘argument’ for pro-slaughter. If one cannot afford to keep the horse, re-home it or have it humanely euthanized. Slaughter is not the answer for overbreeding or irresponsible backyard breeders. Would you allow your dog to starve? ~ then eat it so it didn’t go to waste??? And you are OK with feeding tainted meat to your family? The drugs used to keep horses healthy and ‘usable’ are toxic and carcinogenic to humans. But you should already be aware of that.
      As for putting a horse in the same catagory as other livestock ~ horses in this country are companion animals. Have you ever really KNOWN a horse? They feel just as you can (?)feel….but my guess is that is far beyond your comprehension. Too bad.

       
      • Teri Lynne Parks

        January 16, 2012 at 9:49 am

        Unfortunately you are wrong magiclady. Horses in the US are legally defined as a livestock animal. In the 1980s I think or thereabouts, there was a strong march to declare horses a pet animal but it failed because farms would no longer be able to declare losses on taxes and it would devalue the horse greatly. Yes, in the US the majority of horses own are done so for ECONOMIC reasons…the economic advancement of the person. Even our “natural horse trainers” own horse not to keep for life or love, but because they are training to sell to someone else for a profit.

         
    • Amanda Gray

      January 16, 2012 at 9:14 am

      It’s funny how the anti-slaughter side came up with the Children’s Letter Campaign and now all these 16 year old kids who seem to me to be quite educated pop up…. I saw a 20 year old horse for sale on craigslist the other day and my friend said “Why would they want $500 for a 20 year old horse?” My response? “I’d rather stick my child on a 20 year old been there done that but can’t carry the weight anymore horse than a 4 year old freshly broke youngster.” Those four horses your friends dump into the slaughter system could find a home. If they would give them the chance. Heck… you let me know when they need homes and I’ll help them find them some. But that’s not what they want. They want a way to be PAID to dump their horses. Which to me is just plain SAD!

       
      • Jerry Finch

        January 16, 2012 at 9:21 am

        Amanda – Surely you aren’t implying that some of the good old slaughter supporters would stoop so low as to mimic a 16 year old with 130 horses, are you? I am shocked.

         
    • Portia

      January 16, 2012 at 9:46 am

      Horse meat is contaminated. The industry does not support good jobs and the horses that go to slaughter are not old decrepit starved horses but healthy usable horses. No one is suggesting that letting horses starve to death is humane that is crazy but horse slaughter as it functions now is not humane either . The answer: ethical, moral and responsible human behavior. By the way PETA is all for killing animals just not for killing animals for human consumption they would rather see an animal dead than be used for human entertainment, sport or food. I am not against people eating horse meat some cultures eat dogs and cats I have no problem with different cultural ideas but this country does not produce horses for food. Humans are animals also by the way we are not so different than our fellow mammals except we have the ability to reason and funny how the word humane contains the word human. A country is judged by how it treats it’s children, old people and animals. -Mahatma Ghandi So Chew on that!!

       
    • joshdaniel

      January 16, 2012 at 4:26 pm

      In response to a few comments I’ve received:
      Mmm, Amanda Gray, hate to burst your bubble, but can you tell me how many people want to teach their kids to ride? And now can you tell me how many how many “been there done that but can’t carry the weight anymore” horses there are? I can’t either, but I’d have to guess that there’s more of the latter. Now, if it were practical, would sending older horses to homes where they could be useful in teaching young children be a good thing? Uuuh, Duh. I hope none of us are stupid enough to think otherwise.
      Who ever put on the editors note: No, I never expected the $2,000, and your comment proved my point. You will never get anything that will convince you of “a logical, proven statement supporting horse slaughter.” I’d be willing to bet a couple grand of my own if I had it that you will never have to pay up, because even if somebody much smarter, and with many more technical facts than myself, produces a solid argument, in your eyes, your argument of ethics trumps all. It is a position that you have decided is unassailable. Similarly to how I look at religion. I believe. Period. That trumps logic. However, I wouldn’t put religion and the value of a horse at quite the same level. Oh, and I wasn’t saying the page supported PETA, just a statement to avoid comments on the evils of humans using animals.
      Magiclady: I’m not referring to somebody who keeps a horse as a pet, or even so much as a hobby. My arguments were based around people for whom horses are a necessary tool, if you will. Those who use horses as a working partner, who need horses to support their livelihood.

      I think where our basic difference comes from is how we look at the problem. While you, and most of the people commenting on this page, are looking at it from the side of feelings (“I love my horse, how dare anyone do something not ideal for their horses”), I’m trying to look at the practical side. It would be great if both sides met, or if the numbers worked out for the perfect scenario, but they don’t. Is it sad to see a companion go? Yes. But that’s life. It’s cruel sometimes.
      Now. As to your reference to “all these 16 year old kids who seem to me to be quite educated,” yes, there are actually semi-intelligent teens left in our country. Hard to believe, right? A little explanation though. Katelyn is a friend of mine from school. I happened to notice a link to this page that she put up, and I thought, what the heck? Might as well check it out, right? So, I read through the article. I love a good debate. I love stirring up the pot every now and then, to see other’s opinions. Looks like my comment worked as far as that’s concerned.
      I’m not saying that I made my opinions up. I already had them, and I stand by them. The responses that got sent my way have educated me a little though. Apparently I’m now a fake, a cover up for a slaughter supporters who stoops low enough to mimic a 16 year old (courtesy of Jerry Finch;)). Which just goes to show how set you people are in your ways. Just like I’m set in mine. However, I have picked up a few useful things as well. I assumed that the article was directed to the glue mills as well as the slaughter houses. Still not quite sure if I was or not? But anyway, my reference to products was meant to include the fertilizer and other useful products which can be made. Perhaps I’m arguing the wrong topic here? not quite sure.
      So, get ready to attack me again, and let me know about the last few questions a put up.

      And believe me, my goal is not money, or to anger others, or convince you that you should even necessarily change your minds. I’m simply trying to put some perspective in here, and add some input from the other side of the argument. Take it easy, don’t burst a blood vessel stressing about it or anything. I’m sure I’ll probably be back ;)

       
      • Beverly

        January 16, 2012 at 9:17 pm

        Josh, I am looking at things from the practical side as I am in the horse business as a breeder, however as a responsible breeder. I agree that the two sides and anyone else need to come together somehow for a solution to the problem, but I don’t feel that slaughter is that answer. Responsible owners, responsible breeders, responsible organizations (lol), etc. I think is the answer, or at least the beginning of a consensus to find an answer. Perhaps, as I have suggested on other sites, if the breed organizations went to some kind of an inspection for breeding stock as so many of the sport horse breeds have done, that might not only help with the quality of what is bred, but it would significantly cut down on the number of foals produced.

         
      • Amanda Gray

        January 17, 2012 at 4:26 pm

        Well.. seeing how I get kids out at my place all the time who want to ride… I’m assuming a lot. : ) Seeing how I offer the ability to parents to bring their kids out to learn about horses for free I get kids through here all the time. And just so you know they have moved on to get older horses. But they also have a hard time finding them. Because most folks don’t want to get rid of the horses they’ve had for years and years. I see far less old horses on craigslist and what not than I do young horses. And the older ones that are free to a good home or being leased out go relatively quick around here. We know they are worth their weight in gold.

         
    • Suzanne Moore

      January 22, 2012 at 1:03 pm

      There certainly IS something wrong with eating a horse that has EVER been exposed to a substance that is labeled “not for use in horses intended for food purposes.”

      Besides that, statistics have already proven that abuse goes DOWN when the plants closed. And what the heck was that about “anti-slaughter laws”? WHAT anti-slaughter laws? Just take those horses to the local auction and the killers will take care of the rest. You HAD to have made this up because I can’t imagine people raging over laws that do not even exist!

       
  30. magiclady6698

    January 15, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    Let’s face it, hell will freeze over and pigs will fly before any so called rational reason for pro-slaughter will be forthcoming. As for the Congressmen I emailed for months prior to 11-18-11 asking them ever so politely to decline anything giving the appearance of permitting equine slaughter and being told there was nothing on the table ~ well, you can forget any vote from me. You can also anticipate no support of ANY bill you may be inclined to support. And for our president ~ raspberries to you! Yet another promise broken…sorta like the system at present: BROKEN.
    Knock yourselves out for the $2,000 ~ this should be real interesting.

     
    • Jerry Finch

      January 16, 2012 at 9:04 pm

      NOTE TO ALL – I’ve had enough of the snarky comments, stupid digs and insanity. I moderate each and every post on this blog. If you have something worth adding to this debate, feel free to write about it and I’ll post it. If you want to be sarcastic, your post will not go through. I am more than happy to post both anti and pro-slaughter comments as long as they are somewhat intelligent and thought provoking.

       
  31. Beth Turner

    January 15, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    This is brilliant!

    The true answer is that it’s all about greed and corruption – getting protected animals out of the way so you can “drill baby drill.” http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread590145/pg1

    As for all you psychopaths who own/use horses just so you can abuse/neglect them, let’s see you earn some of your beloved cash.

    You. Your cash.

    That’s all that matters isn’t it?

     
  32. shirley smith

    January 15, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    It is all about money how much is enough for them people you hit the nail right on the head I say its blood money and they could care less about the horses, which have served people since time began and continue to do so. Now is your chance you greedy heartless people to make some big money GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!! ANSWER THE $2000.00 dollar question!!!

     
  33. Morgan Griffith

    January 15, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    Jerry thank you for being a man who is completely fed up with the lies meant to cover the odious greed of the slaughter proponents. Every time I read their dribble there is nothing new nor even provable. That there are those in Congress that by into their moral turpitude astounds and sickens me. Congress seems to have long ago forgotten that they work for the majority not the small and devious and amoral minority.

     
    • molls

      January 16, 2012 at 8:08 am

      I have an idea why don’t you take that money and send it to the people who can’t afford to buy hay for theses horses!!! Like in Texas where I live we have 15 horses 4 of them I run barrels on the others we took in from our neighbor because they were starving! I pay $16.99 a small square bale plus feed and they eat about 8 bales a day!!!!! YOU DO THE FREAKING MATH! These are old retired horses and if something isn’t done I will take them to a sale soon! No one wants animals to be slaughtered but I would much rather that happen then see what is going on around here with them starving. I know a man down the road he has over 30 head of horses bought them cause they were so cheap, now he can’t feed them and they are so starved 2 of them died last week. I myself have called the humane society and nothing has been done!

       
      • Jerry Finch

        January 16, 2012 at 8:16 am

        Molis – Habitat for Horses is in Texas and we do have hay assistance programs for those who qualify. Please contact us at office@habitatforhorses.org for an application. As to the man with 30 horses, there is no cure for stupid. Call law enforcement. As for the $2,000, that comes out of my and RT’s pockets, not from the organization.

         
      • Portia

        January 16, 2012 at 9:21 am

        I pay 20.00 a bale and live in Florida. What is your point? Why can’t you have them euthanized by your vet? Why would someone with half a brain buy 30 cheap horses? I know times are rough and believe me they are rough for me also but when I bought or took on my horses I made a commitment for the rest of that horses life. That is called responsibility and I take that very seriously because it is a reflection on my moral character. I have 4 horses and 2 of them are retired one is 26 years and the other is 15 and was retired due to injury.The least I can do is after all they have done for me is to care for them til they are too old and infirmed to live comfortably and then I will have them humanely put down. THe points you made do not justify the inhumane treatment of the slaughter industry. The answer lies in people being made accountable for their unethical treatment of animals and lack of responsible breeding practices.

         
      • Teri Lynne Parks

        January 16, 2012 at 9:55 am

        I can’t tell you how many times I called our legal services in the states of GA and TN and been given the run around. So very few sheriff’s departments want to spend their limited time and resources on starving animals. Not to mention, I know for a fact that rescues are few and far between and many times you have to find a way to transport a horse hundreds of miles to a rescue because they WILL not come out and help for one or two starving, neglected horses. Working in fencing and barn repair allows me to see the plight of the horses daily and I have literally been given the run around by anyone I have contacted regarding helping these poor animals. I cannot afford to take them in and will not do so because then I cannot afford to feed them and I have to deal with the thought daily.

         

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